Wikipedia:Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Disambiguation

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The following page is a local copy of the Wikipedia page at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Disambiguation. (more info)

For discussion related to disambiguation on Wikipedia but not to the project, please see the Wikipedia talk:Disambiguation (general disambiguation) or the Manual of Style (specific style questions).

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On the disambiguation page for "David Goodman". The David Goodman who writes for Mother Jones should be included. (Brother of Amy Goodman.)209.216.179.131 (talk) 04:03, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Disambiguation

Guideline (talk)
Style guide (talk)
WikiProject (talk)

Dos and don'ts (talk)

Disambig category
Cleanup category

CJKV task force
Suggestions

Huckleberry Finn

I just made the novel the primary topic of Huckleberry Finn (disambiguation). I am now wondering if we should merge the entire dab page into the novel article as a "derived works" section (plus a hatnote to the character page). Thoughts? (John User:Jwy talk) 00:37, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

I like things as they stand - it seems that there are enough adapted works to make the dab page a useful tool as opposed to integrating the content into the main novel article. Two thumbs up on your recent changes here. --Zach425 ^talk/contribs 03:51, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. JHunterJ deserves some credit for cleaning it up as well. Now that I think of it, with the book as the primary, those that would scan through "the original" to find their adaptation will do so, those that are more impatient or more focussed in their search will go to the dab page. I'm fine with the way it is now, too... (John User:Jwy talk) 05:52, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Should Northover be a dab page

Can someone advise on whether Northover should really be a dab page? The article mentions 2 different places with the name - neither of which have an article & I'm not sure what to do with it?— Rod ^talk 21:04, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

If there are no articles to disambiguate, it shouldn't be a disambiguation page. -- JHunterJ (talk) 23:14, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Disambiguation page for State of Oregon?

There is a discussion underway here in which some users suggest that a disambiguation page be created for this title; of course, if that is the consensus, it would imply that a disambig page would be required for every national and subnational political entity on the face of the Earth. Editors are encouraged to add their opinions. :=) --R'n'B (call me Russ) 07:50, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for that pointer, Russ. -- JHunterJ (talk) 11:15, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Giuseppe Nirta

Are the (born 19XX) the way we want the pages here disambiguated? It seems nonstandard, but I can't think of any other way to disambiguate them. ÷seresin 04:24, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

I think its fine. If you CAN think of a clear distinguishing word, it might be better, but the birthdate is clear and can be useful to help the user narrow down their search. (John User:Jwy talk) 05:22, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

<edit conflict>If middle initials/names are unavailable (unknown or not used), and nationality and occupation are the same, then birth year is the next option. I've seen that disambiguator used with some regularity for older English footballers: no middle name known, same nationality and occupation, so disambiguation is done by year of birth.--ShelfSkewed Talk 05:23, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Jail (a.k.a. gaol, prison)

There have been conflicting discussions regarding the naming and content of Jail, Gaol, and Prison, recently brought to the surface by a RfD discussion for Gaol. The article currently at Jail is U.S.-centric, although jail (a.k.a., gaol) means Prison in an international context. In light of the previous discussions and the international disparity in terms, I've modified the Jail (disambiguation) page. Is the new format acceptable?

Frankly, I think Jail should be moved back to Jail (American) and Jail (disambiguation) should be moved back to Jail. But given the history, I thought I'd see what other members of this project think. Thanks. --Zach425 ^talk/contribs 07:51, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

If the primary topic article for "jail" is the article on the U.S.-style detention, then the current arrangement (including having gaol redirect to prison) is correct. But as long as there is a primary topic, the dab page should reflect it. If a move request shows consensus for no primary topic and results in the move of the dab page to the base name, then the dab formatting would be changed. -- JHunterJ (talk) 11:25, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Lincoln

There's a discussion at Talk:Lincoln#Attempts at a consensus over the lead to a disambiguation page. The edit war at the article has been between editors who want "Lincoln may refer to:" and editors who want a longer lead that singles out two of the entries for special attention. Please participate in the discussion. Uncle G (talk) 10:29, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Proposal to discuss dab deletion at RfD

FYI, there has beena policy change proposed at the Village pump that dab pages should be exempted from WP:PROD, and that their deletion should instead be moved under the purview of WP:RfD. This seems like a reasonable proposal, but the discussion would certainly benefit from the input of this project's members. --Zach425 ^talk/contribs 00:34, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

New how-to page

I've created a new How-to page, Wikipedia:Disambiguation do's and don'ts, which may be helpful to cite in edit summaries and user talk messages. I've summarized what I think are the most important details of the style guide in a short, colorful form, which I suspect is more likely than the style guide to be read in full by the casual editor. This may be worth highlighting on the project page, if there is a consensus to do so. » Swpb^{τ • ¢} 16:38, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

V. nice summary; it will be a useful link to give to new users. Tassedethe (talk) 12:07, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Template (star) wars

I've been having some trouble for a while with Template:NBC Universal, where an IP editor suspected of being a banned user continually adds ambiguous links to Sci Fi Channel (he also adds logos and bad entries to the dab page). This is despite the fact that all of the links shown on the dab page are already found on the template. It's gotten to the point where the template is semi-protected and the IP was blocked for a couple of weeks, but a (cough) fairly new user has appeared to readd an ambiguous link to the template. I'd appreciate opinions on whether or not the ambiguous links are appropriate; I'd rather not run afoul of the spirit of the 3RR. Dekimasuよ! 11:36, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Suggestions go where?

I'm not at all clear from your project page if there is a place where new disam pages can be requested - it doesn't seem to be the bot page. For example Woodall needs one. Johnbod (talk) 16:02, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

You can do it. Just check out WP:MOSDAB to make sure it's following the manual of style. Feel free to come back or to my talk if you have questions. --AndrewHowse (talk) 16:10, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

I don't think Woodall needs a dab, but I've added a two-pronged hatnote. PamD (talk) 17:29, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Well, if you wanted to, there are plenty of articles from which to create a Woodall (surname) page. And once you created that, then you could move the hamlet article and make Woodall a dab page. If you wanted to... <resisting some form of smiley>--ShelfSkewed Talk 17:43, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

I know I can do it, but I'm not going to. There are people, places, Woodall numbers & all sorts, so it seems to me a full page is needed. Johnbod (talk) 17:53, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

I moved it to Woodall, South Yorkshire, and turned Woodall into a dab page. People, unless their name is just "Woodall" without any surname/given name, don't technically go into the page. However, as ShelfSkewed suggested, you can have a Woodall (surname) entry. --Tesscass (talk) 19:04, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Links to redirects on disambigs

I have seen this done a lot and thought it was okay to do, so I was wondering, is this not allowed or something? Like would it be okay to list the character Detective Frank Harris (the name redirects to the discussion about him on Cool World) on the Frank Harris (disambiguation)? Certainly in cases like this it is standard to list the real human beings first, which is why when I added him I listed him last. Real people or subjects with articles should take precidence, but since a redirect is also a blue link and it helps people find information, wouldn't it also be helpful? I have read the WP pages about disambiguation and haven't come across anything referencing this positively or negatively so I am not sure.

The reason I think this is useful is that there are also many 'List of characters in' pages where characters have their own subsections and linking to these names (which subsequently direct to those sections) will help people find information about people with those names. Having an entire article to yourself is grounds for more prominently listing a name on a disambig, but are these the only people who may be listed on it? This seems awkward since in some cases (mainly with fictional characters) you have cases where there is flipflopping between the char having an entire article about them to them being moved to a list, so it seems to save work and be more helpful to navigation to list the name on the page regardless. I thought it would be good if more experienced editors could clarify their thoughts on this and whether or not policy reflects on the issue. If I'm missing something that's cool, but if not then would be be possible to clarify this issue in the description? Tyciol (talk) 16:02, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Yes, in such cases you can certainly list the character on the disambiguation page. This is covered at WP:MOSDAB.--Kotniski (talk) 16:08, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

WP:MOSDAB#Where redirecting may be appropriate suggests that redirects be used "to link to a specific section of an article only if the title of that section is more or less synonymous with the disambiguated topic", or "when the redirect contains the disambiguated term and could serve as an alternative name for the target article." That is not the case here. Detective Frank Harris is not another name for Cool World, nor is there a section in that article titled "Detective Frank Harris". When the term is just mentioned in the article, it is suggested that piping be used instead, thus: *Detective Frank Harris, a fictional character in the film ''[[Cool World#Plot|Cool World]]'' In fairness, there are some editors who find this restriction on the use of redirects too restrictive and who would have no problem with the Detective Frank Harris redirect. I think a relevant criterion might be, Is it likely that the topic Detective Frank Harris is sufficiently notable that it could possibly support a future separate article? If so, use the redirect; if not, not. But that's just my opinion. --ShelfSkewed Talk 16:40, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Agree completely with ShelfSkewed. older ≠ wiser 17:11, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

While it's not exactly the case, he's one of the leads in the film and listed prominently in the character section. The reason he doesn't have his section is probably because like most movies, the character biographies and descriptions have been incorporated into the plot description. I'm not sure if it would be appropriate to excise them. I see your point though, it does make sense to link directly to Cool World. While there were additional developments beyond the movie (video game, comic) it seems that what's happened to date hasn't been notable enough and there hasn't been any recent work with him. Tyciol (talk) 02:37, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Maupin

Just calling your attention to this page. Seems to me there's all kinds of WP:MOSDAB violations going on here. Cheers! Katr67 (talk) 18:28, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Tagged it with {{disambig-cleanup}}. -- JHunterJ (talk) 19:31, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

... and bagged. --AndrewHowse (talk) 22:42, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Proposed rule for redirects from character names to disambig pages

We have a lot of redirects from the name of a character to the disambig page for the media in which the character occurs. For example, Alexander Conklin redirects to The Bourne Identity; Blade (Street Fighter character) (and several alternative forms) redirects to Street Fighter: The Movie; E.K. Hornbeck redirects to Inherit the Wind. These raise our disambig load, and so, pursuant to the discussion of this problem at Wikipedia talk:Disambiguation pages with links#Redirects from character names to media names, I propose the following rule to deal with these redirects:

Character names should redirect to a "list of characters" page for the media in question if one exists, and otherwise should redirect to the page for the earliest media produced in which the character was substantially developed.

Please opine. Cheers! bd2412 T 23:14, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Please opine here or there? It looks like you've pointed there to here, so I'm going to opine here. Yes, I think the only redirects that should target disambiguation pages are various alternate spellings and misspellings of the ambiguous title, {{R to disambiguation page}} "(disambiguation)" redirects, and {{R from incomplete disambiguation}} redirects. But I wouldn't specify earliest, but rather most likely. So, for instance, a character in The Princess Bride would redirect to the film, not the novel. (I don't know why the film isn't at the base name -- it probably should be, like The Godfather is.) -- JHunterJ (talk) 11:34, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Here, thanks. One of the proposals in the initial discussion was to point it to the page with the best discussion of the character, but on Wikipedia that can change very quickly (and the "best discussion" can always be copied over to the earlier work). "Most likely" is subject to dispute, and can change over time as well, as print versions regain popularity or new film versions are made. The earliest version of a work, however, usually has links to all later versions. bd2412 T 05:14, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Yes, "most likely" can change and can be hard to pin down. But it's still better for the reader than "earliest" in those cases where "earliest" isn't the "most likely", especially in those cases where the "earliest" version of a work (a) doesn't have an article yet (b) has only a stub or (c) otherwise doesn't link to all later versions. -- JHunterJ (talk) 11:11, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Another extreme case: would characters in Hamlet (if they didn't have articles of their own) redirect to Hamlet or Ur-Hamlet? Maybe a wording like "most likely, defaulting to earliest if there is no consensus for another choice"? -- JHunterJ (talk) 11:46, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Makes sense to me. Propaniac (talk) 12:51, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Okay, then I can go along with that. As long as we're not redirecting characters to disambig pages, it's an improvement! bd2412 T 18:56, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Colic

Shouldn't Colic be a dab? --67.100.204.226 (talk) 02:37, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

It used to be, but it's been article-stubified since then, while keeping a list of types pointing to other articles. It could be stripped back down to a dab page, if there's consensus to do so. You might suggest it at Talk:Colic. -- JHunterJ (talk) 10:46, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

James Caan

Someone recently unilaterally moved James Caan to James Caan (actor) and turned James Caan into a dab page. The move is being disputed. Please comment here: Talk: James Caan (actor)#Requested Move --Tesscass (talk) 19:35, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

Previous move reverted. -- JHunterJ (talk) 20:25, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

Dead ball

I think this should not be a disambig. All the meanings set forth on the page are examples of roughly the same phenomenon in different sports. bd2412 T 18:06, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

I've modified the page slightly to be more in line with WP:MOSDAB. I think this could go one of two ways:

Leave the dab page as-is with the pages it links to in place
Convert the dab page to an article that covers the phenomenon across all sports and delete the pages for the individual sports

—Zach425 ^talk/contribs 19:10, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

I'd be inclined to support the latter. The "articles" to which this is linked are very short, some of them one-liners, and have no real potential for growth. bd2412 T 19:15, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Just one minor adjustment if the latter is implemented: Don't delete the other pages--redirect them.--ShelfSkewed Talk 20:56, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Yes, redirects make sense (section redirects, even). bd2412 T 21:27, 25 September 2009 (UTC)